pennmom
Bear
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[TI0] IT'S FIVE O'CLOCK AND ALL'S WELL
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Post by pennmom on Mar 29, 2022 16:13:56 GMT
We don't seem to be very organized or consistent with our Group Game Play schedule. I was originally hoping members would jump in to initiate group games (not just wait for me) but I think lurkercat was the only person to open a Group Game thread for Gorogoa ( ) I'm trying to come up with a new strategy since the games are far and few between so I've decided to take a Poll: A-Would you prefer that I (or another admin) just initiate a RANDOM HOPA game once a week? (Players could join in on any game at anytime still) B-Would you prefer I take a POLL to find out what everyone want to play before initiating a GPG? (this would be a longer process) C-Would you prefer I choose a weekly game from different genres at the same time? (eg: Week 1 would have a HOPA game selection, AND a Time Management game, perhaps a Match 3 game as well?) D-Would you prefer I keep it the way it is now, whenever the mood strikes someone? E-Would you like to have Woodsey members initiate their own Group Play Games? (It's easy peasy to create a new GPG thread & I'll gladly help!)
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Post by lurkercat on Mar 29, 2022 19:44:55 GMT
Just some personal preferences/observations, for what they may be worth: - I'd like some advance notice on any games chosen for group play so that we have the opportunity to search out sales for purchasing them. I'd prefer not to have to pay premium price for a group play game merely because the game is announced only days before the group play begins so that immediate purchase is required in order to participate. That is where having a list of group-selected games and a proposed schedule for play could come in quite handy
- Although as a group we all probably tend to a preference for HOPAs for our individual play, they do not seem like really good candidates for a group play because usually are simple enough to be solved individually and not need the collective efforts of the "group" to play. In general, I think any game that can be completed in a few hours is probably a poor choice for group play because they require little collaboration or cross-talk. As a result, adventure games and other genres requiring some amount of strategy or puzzle solving seem like better candidates for a group play
- For me, the fun of a group play is in the chit-chat that ensues as members help each other over rough spots, express frustration at trying to solve things, and commiserate over a period of time in trying to complete the game. Thus a long-lasting game, particularly with our varied time zones, seems more conducive to enjoyable group play and conversation
- Since BFG is notoriously poor on adventure game selections, we should seriously consider including Steam-available games in our candidate lists too. And a starter point for available games might be the lists originally created back at the Pond for mcquigan's "Pond Friends Group Game Plays" board. Lots of good info there, including lists of previous polls, proposed candidates, descriptions of numerous games, etc. Seems like a valuable resource rather than our having to start completely from scratch?? Also tends to need someone knowledgeable in such games to help in deciding which games are really worth considering given our group's skills and preferences (Jo, looking at you here!!)
- All of the above just my opinions of course. Your mileage may vary!
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Jo
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Post by Jo on Mar 29, 2022 20:59:40 GMT
I think you're on to something here, lurkercat, One shouldn't try to reinvent the wheel.
These are random thoughts.
I quit at PF long ago so don't have access to the old group play threads. What was our first game? Was it Syberia? A classic!
We need to have probably three or four games that have been approved through voting. Then a schedule can be set. What do you think = one group play a month? And do a week or two pause before the first game so people can get the game?
Could we put together a list of potential games? And then showcase them with trailers and game descriptions. Remember that we had to drag a few people kicking and screaming away from the HOPAs and convince them that they could play an adventure game. And that it would be fun! It might be hard for people with not much experience playing adventure/puzzle games or buying from somewhere other than BF to come up with nominations. Gentle guidance?
The only time I've ever done HOPA group plays was at the Diving Bell Pub with multi-genre gamers and that was to get rid of our backlog of BF games. I had over 50 unplayed HOPAs at that time and I wasn't unusual with the group there. They never took more than a couple of days. We alternated with adventure game group plays which usually took roughly a week.
I will be glad to help out with donating games.
Games I've played in the couple of years or so that I loved and aren't hard games: Night of the Rabbit, A Night in the Woods, Detective Grimoire, Tangle Towers, Anna's Quest, Gibbous - A Cthulhu Adventure, Kathy Rain and Willy Morgan and the Curse of Bone Town. I know there's more. Can't think of them right now. I haven't played the Room series yet but they're supposed to be great puzzle games.
Okay, that's all the random thoughts I have at the moment so stop looking at me!
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pennmom
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[TI0] IT'S FIVE O'CLOCK AND ALL'S WELL
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Post by pennmom on Mar 29, 2022 21:02:46 GMT
lurkercat , Jo , I get all that, it makes sense but my thought was that if we were constantly offering various group games there would be no need to take polls because members could pick & choose and not have to worry about missing out on a group play game that only comes along every every once in a while. They would know there would be another selection within a few days, (and know exactly what that game was and when it started) eventually they would find one that interested them or that they already own, and wishlist for upcoming sales. Of course we could choose 2-3 months worth games at a time which would give everyone a couple of months to purchase the games they are interested in for example: (just throwing these out from the top of my head) April 1-8The Room (games 1, 2, 3, 4 available) April 8-15A Tale For Anna April 15-22Wallace & Gromits Grand Adventure April 22-29Through Andrea's Eyes April 29-May 6Syberia (games 1, 2, 3 and now the new Syberia: The World Before) May 6-13The Neverhood May 13-20Loom May 20-27My Brother Rabbit May 27-June 3Sam & Max Save the World June 3-10Varenje June 10-17The Book of Unwritten Tales
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pennmom
Bear
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[TI0] IT'S FIVE O'CLOCK AND ALL'S WELL
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Post by pennmom on Mar 29, 2022 21:09:17 GMT
lurkercat , Jo , We could still do polls (to choose multiple games) but my thought is to find at least 2 months worth of games because no one will agree on playing the same games, we never do. My thought would be to have more games available as group play, there is no reason we couldn't have a group playing game A even if it overlaps with game B rather than waiting a month to play a game (or 2 if you don't like game A) if that males sense?
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Jo
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Post by Jo on Mar 29, 2022 21:49:51 GMT
Remember to look at compatibility especially when looking at abandonware. We'll need to look at the system requirements especially at Steam where older games are seldom updated. lurkercat, can attest to this. I remember at PF that you had one game from Steam that wouldn't play but the GOG version played just fine. Can't remember what it was now. Maybe Still Life? We probably don't have anyone here who is still running an XP or Vista OS but we might have people with Win 7/8 so compatibility works both ways.
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Post by lurkercat on Mar 29, 2022 23:12:11 GMT
GREAT proposed list of games pennmom, and one we could readily plan on without resorting to a poll, I'd think! I even already own 3 of your first 4 suggestions & have been trying to get around to playing them. (Ummm, though I am assuming you are only proposing one of the Room games in a week, and not that we try to complete all 4 at once???) Think your suggested weekly schedule is too ambitious though & could easily lead to burnout and/or frustration. Burnout in having to constantly find time to play, and frustration in not being able to finish in time (and then not even having time to finish w/o missing out on the start of the next one). For me, at least, I only get probably at most an hour a day to play (and even for that, usually wind up needing to push some things aside to get play time every day and/or finding myself staying up really late 'cause I just cannot quit till I figure out one puzzle...but then being too tired to work at that same pace the next day). And the games are often challenging enough that my mind needs some rest time before tackling the next one. And some games can take even longer. When we did Syberia at the Pond, for example, it took about 2 weeks for everyone to finish. At a minimum, I'd suggest no more than 1 game every 2 weeks. And if a game does take most players into the 2nd week, I'd suggest adding an additional week before the start of the next game, to allow folks' minds a brief chance to "rest up". Again, just my opinion. Spacing too tightly can make the games seem more chore than fun, I think.
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Post by lurkercat on Mar 29, 2022 23:21:33 GMT
P.S. Also like the plan of starting on a Friday. Some folks (ah, those poor souls still working for a living!) often only get a chance to play on the weekends, so nice for them to get a chance at playing while most other folk are just starting out too, rather than having to feel like they are always trailing everyone else.
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joybelle
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Post by joybelle on Mar 30, 2022 1:27:47 GMT
Just to be a 'pain in the a' ...I think once a week is too much..maybe once a fortnight would be better in case life gets in the way before another game comes up. I love group play, but can be slow with some games LOL! Just throwing it in there. I know once a week is pushing it for me to do them all? Cheers Mate
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moni
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Post by moni on Mar 30, 2022 2:33:41 GMT
I like group plays, I feel "connected" knowing that we are playing the same game (even if it is not in real time)
While HOPAs are not my first choice to play, for group plays I "endure" them. LOL I also have a bunch of them purchased on BFGs and on Steam, hoping that playing them will make me to fall in love - didn't happen yet, though.
I believe, that it is almost beside the point of WHAT, and it is more like the question of WHEN and how often. lurkercat, has mentioned McQuigan's group play at PF... While I'm not PF member anymore, I've recently joined a Discord Server called Sanscape, where McQuigan is running the group play channels. The games are scheduled in one year advance! They have 1 main game/mo, and "Side games" in every 2 weeks. The games are chosen to accommodate most of the participants' operating system. (if you want to take a look at her group play system here is an invitation to that server: Sanscape Discord Server )
Or, here is her schedule for 2021 as a sample;
#53 Jan. 11, Side Lions Song, Doodle #54 Jan 21, Group Resonance #55 Feb 11 Side Delaware St. John, 186FleeetStreet #56 Feb. 18, Group Amnesia: Dark Descent, BinaryBeat & PlayZodi c Journeyman Project 3 Legacy of Time, Jim #57 Mar. 22, Group Myst IV Revelation #... Apr, 03 Side Lammana #58 Apr, 22 Group Sam & Max Hit The Road, Lucien #59 May. 7, Side Primordia, Rainworm & Nene #60 May 20, Group Goetia. MadamP, McQuigan #61 Jun. 4, Side Strangeland #62 Jun. 17, Group Hand of Glory, Rainworm #63 Jul 9 Hand of Glory part two #64 Jul 23 , Group Tesla Effect, Jim & Lucien #65 Aug. 13-Aug. 23rd, Side Beneath a Steel Sky #66 Aug. 27,-Sept 6th Group Beyond a Steel Sky, McQuigan #67 Sept, Side Sept. 12th. Around the World in Music. England is our featured country #68 Sept 24th-Oct 3rd Group Full Throttle, Rainworm, Nene #69 Oct 15th, Side Anna’s Quest #70 Oct, Group October 24-sign in True Fear: Forsaken Souls (one). 186Fleetstreet #71 Nov 11th, Group Technobabylon, MadamPsychosis #72 Nov, Side #73 Dec, 9th Group Jenny LeClue, Rainworm, Minesita #74 Dec, Side (edited) February 18, 2021
So, I think, pennmom, is on the right track! and lurkercat, is right about extending the time between games.
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pennmom
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Post by pennmom on Mar 30, 2022 12:28:18 GMT
lurkercat, Jo, joybelle, moni, I'd just like to point out that there are several people running those group play games, (not just McQuigan) rainworm, @minsita, @madampsychosis, @186fleeetstreet, @jenny LeClue, @nene, McQuigan...at least when the side games are in play It is hard to orchestrate several games much less host them all solo Rolling Along
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Jo
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Post by Jo on Mar 30, 2022 20:02:37 GMT
First of all, you don't need anyone to host a group play. Just someone to organize the schedule and set up the thread which should be stickied so it doesn't sink into oblivion and can't be found. Anyone can start a thread and it takes about 30 seconds to do. You, me and Joyville can sticky it. Nobody was disagreeing that we need a schedule - just how often games are scheduled.
Group plays with McQuigan at Senscape were very complicated affairs. They required at least one host and more often two. The host was required to play the game at least once, preferably twice, so that they could answer every conceivable question about it. The host(s) made avatars for all members because people there would change their avatars to match the game and many changed their names to characters in the game. Most hosts made some kind of personalize certificate of completion for each player that were doled out at the end. There was a strict limit on time to complete, usually about 7 to 10 days to accommodate the gainfully employed. Then the game thread was moved to "Still Playing". Polls were conducted quarterly with member choosing three games from a field of nominations, one a month. The gaps could be filled in with side plays which just means that someone would suggest a game and if enough people wanted to play, McQuigan would stick it in the schedule between regular group plays. Also, newly released games were sandwiched into the schedule if enough people were interested especially if it was a highly anticipated game. I refused to ever host a game because it just wasn't any damned fun for me. I don't get off on being in charge. I left Senscape in September 2021 so I don't know how they are doing it now.
Now, in sharp contrast, group plays at the Diving Bell Pub were NOT hosted. One person set up the schedule, after nominations and voting, and the thread and then everyone went in cold and just played the game. Voting was for adventure games. HOPAs were decided by how many people had a particular unplayed HOPAs in their BF backlog. So if, for example, 10 people had a game, it went on the schedule. HOPA group plays were only for games that members already owned. Everyone helped everyone else. If I remember correctly, games were scheduled about every two weeks and alternated between HOPAs and adventure games. This was all kind of modeled after the group plays at BF although there were two member who handled the scheduling and threads at BF. If we played a game not sold by BF, we had to play on a completely different forum. You know how BF was about even mentioning another game portal. These group plays were the most fun because we were all discovering the game together. If someone was stuck, it's easy to find a walkthrough or game guide to solve the problem without playing the game before hand. I left the Pub in about 2014 so I have no idea how or even if they're doing it now.
What I suggest is that we take your schedule with the proposed games and dates:
April 1-8 The Room (games 1, 2, 3, 4 available)
April 8-15 A Tale For Anna
April 15-22 Wallace & Gromits Grand Adventure
April 22-29 Through Andrea's Eyes
April 29-May 6 Syberia (games 1, 2, 3 and now the new Syberia: The World Before)
May 6-13 The Neverhood
May 13-20 Loom
May 20-27 My Brother Rabbit May 27-June 3 Sam & Max Save the World
June 3-10 Varenje
June 10-17 The Book of Unwritten Tales
and just dive in and see how it goes. Use this schedule and these games as an introduction. People will be able to give a more informed opinion as to schedule and games after trying it out. Adjustments can be made during and after because nothing is set in stone. The only disadvantage is starting out with the Room on Friday. Doesn't give members a lot of time to go out and buy it although it's only $4.99 US at Steam. We certainly won't be able to play all four of the Room games in a week but it is a good introduction to the series. Then in the next round of games, if someone really wants to play a TM that can be added, too.
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pennmom
Bear
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[TI0] IT'S FIVE O'CLOCK AND ALL'S WELL
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Post by pennmom on Mar 30, 2022 20:10:59 GMT
Jo , we could bump off the April 1st date and start The Rooms 1 on April 8th and move all other dates down a week? (I was just putting all 4 games down to show that there was more than 1 game available in the series) We could do a quick poll for the order in which we play the games OR if someone has a different game suggestion(s) we can add those to the list
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Post by lurkercat on Mar 30, 2022 21:11:30 GMT
I'm "in" for the "just do it" plan proposed by Jo, starting either 4/8 (or 4/1 if the folks interested in participating already have The Room 1 or find its $4.99 price adequate). I would still like to put in a pitch similar to joybelle's for scheduling the games 2 weeks apart rather than 1 to allow more time to complete & to recover. I tried hard to like Discord, 'cause I really enjoyed mcquigan's group game players from PF and wanted to keep up with them when they decamped to Discord. But I never lasted long enough to even make the 1st group play there. Discord seemed just way too hard to follow along on a thread because it did not have the same orderly "show me from where I left off" and "tell me what's new since last time I looked" features that ProBoards does so well. Hoping we can build a similar group game community here! Thanks for re-raising the concept pennmom.
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Jo
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Post by Jo on Mar 30, 2022 21:22:26 GMT
If that's what you decide to do, let me tell everyone where they can get these games.
The Room
Steam $4.99 regular price
I can't find it at GOG, Humble Bundle or Fanatical
A Tale For Anna
Steam (This is the Collector's Edition with Artbook, Music, Bonus Chapter, Minigames and Wallpapers ) $10.99 regular price
Wallace & Gromits Grand Adventure
Steam $14.99 regular price (original version Windows® XP/Vista )
GOG $14.99 80% off = $2.99 (updated version to run on Windows (7, 8, 10, 11) on sale until April 4, 2022
Through Andrea's Eyes
Syberia 1
Steam $12.99 regular price
Fanatical Syberia $12.99 16% off = $10.94 Syberia Collection (includes 1 & 2) $14.99 27% off = $11.01 (I don't know how long this sale is good.)
The Neverhood
This game is abandonware and not available for sale at any game portal. It is available for download at several abandonware site. More info to follow.
Loom
Steam $5.99 regular price (original version Windows® XP/Vista ) GOG $5.99 75% off = $1.49 (updated version to run on Windows (7, 8, 10, 11), Linux (Ubuntu 14.04, Ubuntu 16.04, Ubuntu 18.04), Mac OS X (10.7.0+) ) on sale until April 4, 2022
My Brother Rabbit
Big Fish Games Collector's Edition $19.99/$13.99 (I can't find the SE at BF. Will update this post when more info available) Steam $14.99 regular price CE
GOG $14.99 80% off = $2.99 CE on sale until April 4, 2022
Sam & Max Save the World
Steam $19.99 regular price (original version Windows 7 64Bit Service Pack 1) GOG $19.99 regular price (updated version Windows (7, 8, 10, 11)
Varenje
The Book of Unwritten Tales
Steam $19.99 regular price
GOG $19.99 75% off= $4.99 until April 4, 2022
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Jo
Skunk
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Post by Jo on Mar 30, 2022 21:28:40 GMT
Where do you stand on having a host and what that host's duties should be? I fall into the "Keep it simple, stupid!" camp.
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Post by lurkercat on Mar 30, 2022 21:44:54 GMT
pennmom, Where is The Neverhood available from? Could not find it on BFG or Steam & a google search mainly turned up sites I'd never heard of. Where would you suggest it is safe to get it from?? Also, Wallace & Gromit and The Book of Unwritten Tales are both fairly pricey. The Book of Unwritten Tales is well enough down in your list that there will probably be a decent sale before it comes up, but perhaps we ought to move Wallace & Gromit down a bit to provide for a sale there too?? And we should warn folks that BFG has divided Syberia 1 up into 3 parts, so getting it at Steam is probably a much better plan, particularly as it is often on sale there?? I already played Syberia 1 & 2 at PF so wouldnt indulge again, but it should be fun here for folks who have never played it before.
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Post by lurkercat on Mar 30, 2022 22:23:46 GMT
Where do you stand on having a host and what that host's duties should be? I fall into the "Keep it simple, stupid!" camp.
I agree completely with the "Keep it simple, stupid" camp. Think we need a host to (a) announce the upcoming game in time to get folks to "sign up" as players; (b) add encouraging notes, probably daily, to induce people to keep playing and to report their ongoing status; and (c) congratulate folks as they finish.
I'd be willing to volunteer as a host on a rotating basis.
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Post by bumblebee on Mar 30, 2022 22:57:20 GMT
I don't know what's going on here, but looks exciting! Bear & Honey
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Jo
Skunk
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Post by Jo on Mar 30, 2022 23:56:04 GMT
I don't know what's going on here, but looks exciting! Bear & Honey A group play is when a group of people gather in a forum thread while playing the same game. They discuss the game, where they are in the game, what they like, what they don't like, ask for help when needed, give help and encouragement to other players and do it all without spoilers. This is what gamers did in the olden days before MMORPGs or multi-player games like Among Us were invented. Even though it may be old school, it is a tremendous amount of fun. It can raise a mundane game to a majestic level. from ordinary to sublime. And, oddly enough, it makes the success of completing a game even more rewarding than if you played alone because you are cheered on by your friends. You know the musical fanfare you always get when you beat a game of computer solitaire. This is even better. It's like the hallelujah chorus! And you get to sing in the choir for other people. You don't have to be a gaming mastermind because you'll find out everyone has those facepalm moments. You'll laugh. You'll cry. You'll want to do it again!
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